Do You Work For Primerica Financial? Or Are You A Client?
Recently, I’ve gotten multiple e-mails from readers asking me if they should work for Primerica Financial Services, a subsidiary of Citigroup. I had no idea who they were. After some quick online searching, I quickly found this site and this site, both of which paint a very ugly picture of “the Amway of financial services.”
It seems like it is a multi-level marketing system, where just about anyone can join and sell financial products to their family and friends, and then recruit them as fellow associates. While they promise high salaries, it seems pretty much commission-based. On top of that, you must pay upfront fees prior to joining. This really concerns me, because the people who e-mailed me seemed very interested. Not surprisingly, the e-mails all started with “My friend does it and says I should join…”! This is not the same as selling Kitco knives or fancy vitamins, you are being a financial advisor!
In my post about what it takes to work for Ameriprise Financial, I’ve received a ton of interesting comments from current and former Ameriprise employees, interviewees, and clients. I’m not saying these two companies are the same, I just want to learn more. If anyone has any direct experience with them, please share in the comments. What is their “philosophy”? What’s the payout? How does your “downline” form? What kinds of products do they sell? What kind of training do they provide?
Find more in Investing, Retirement | 12/11/06, 7:31pm | Trackback
December 11th, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Yep. They will let you sell to all your friends and then you had better be able to prospect. I went in for an interview years ago with this group and didn’t like the vibes. Cannot believe this group is now owned by Citi. Kind of lowered my opinion of Citi.
December 11th, 2006 at 8:48 pm
A lot of these questions have been hashed out in a very lively debate in the comments section of one of my posts on Primerica: http://sastools.com/b2/post/79393875
I personally fall on the side that it is all a big scam but I let the Primerica people hash it out with with anti-Primerica guys so all can see the arguments on each side…
December 11th, 2006 at 11:48 pm
Truthfully, I have dealt with people who work for primerica. I believe that they are a cult. The people who I have meet were friends of mine. The employees of primerica that I have meet have all been some type of Christian and push you to try their product. One went so far as to say that they have a unique product that no other company has. Also, the employees of primerica want to run credit reports to help fix your credit. I knew some of the employees from when they were not employeed by primerica and I knew that they had ruined their own credit. So how can they advise you on your own.
I have also heard that when you work for primerica, you get a credit card from citibank to charge all of your business expenses. But when you do do that they deduct your pay to pay for the charges. In the end you have to pay all the interest of all of the charges. My old manager had a friend who was working for primerica and they were told that they would make 60,000 in one year. He ended up only making about $8,000.
The whole thing sounds like a scam and I stay away as much as possible.
December 12th, 2006 at 4:59 am
It’s a funny coincidence, I just wrote about buying Primerica mutual funds (see my blog). At the end, I’ve got a link to a blog where they somewhat say negative things about Primerica but then a lot of comments are very positive …
December 12th, 2006 at 6:30 am
Was recruited by a family member. It was a mistake and a blessing. If memory serves me correct, you have to pass the life insurance exam since that’s Primerica’s bread n butter. The fee you mentioned is $299 and that includes books, Cds and going to classes. The test was fairly easy to pass. You are expected to attend meetings which can get kinda of “animated southern preacher-ish” (no offense). You are expected to recruit your own clients and your upline will advise you to write down 25 of your closest family members and friends and begin there. When it came to that point, I just couldn’t stomach calling up my friends asking them to buy life insurance from. I was afraid of one of the potential downsides of MLM, losing all my friends).
And it’s true, a lot of emphasis is around recruiting others and building your downline. The downline forms by asking people to go to a meeting, then forcing them (just kidding), ASKING them if they like what they heard and telling them they can make good money blah blah blah. Almost more emphasis is on building your downline than getting clients. All in all, it wasn’t terrible just not for me. People thinking about joining know that:
1)Only 1-2% of MLMers make a living wage for a repeat number of years
2)If you’re not good at speaking, sales and cringe at calling friends, relatives, colleagues for selling them this stuff then don’t bother.
The blessing was it spurred me to open my own business so there is a happy ending.
December 12th, 2006 at 6:55 am
I took the training to become a Primerica financial consultant about 6 years ago, bec. my friend dragged me into it. First thing is to review for the state insurance exam, which I passed. And then they want you to study for the Series 6 to sell mutual funds, etc. I didn’t feel comfortable doing so, since I personally invest only in no-load funds. Most of the would-be financial consultants seem financially unsophisticated, so it boggles the mind as to how they can effectively advise customers even after taking the course. Yes, of course its a money-making scheme based on commissions, although Primerica fancies its mission as to educate the masses regarding their finances.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:37 am
I almost joined Primerica several years ago. As soon as I heard you had to be a regional VP before you could earn residuals off of what you have sold, I said no thank you. I would benefit more working for American Express. I believe it is a design that very few will suceed and the majority won’t. It is a way for Citigroup to effectivly cross sell all of their products. I think of it as having your customers sell your products for you. I don’t think of it as a practical way of making money for most people.
December 12th, 2006 at 9:39 am
Weird that I’ve never heard of it until now. I feel like Citi is shutting down a lot of the anti-Primerica websites, a lot of them seem to be down.
December 12th, 2006 at 10:59 am
I attended a job fair and checked out a booth with the Citibank banner. (No mention of Primerica whatsoever) The recruiter went through the job description and how it was a management position etc. I explained I wasn’t interested in sales myself but would consider a management postion of a sales dept. He then asked me to come to an interview with the district manager and only then said it was for Primerica. I googled them the night before the “interview” and suprise, suprise, found out what everyone here knows. Long story short, I confronted the guy on the phone for misleading me into thinking this was a traditional job and he admitted he was recruiting me just to be another of their pyramid style investment advisers. Never take a job where your income is based primarily into convincing other people to take the same job or buy things that only benefit you. Quixstar is another MLM sham.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:36 am
Another notorious one is WFG (known as World Financial Group) owned by Aegon group. MLM in life insurance, annuity, etc.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:37 am
Direct marketing is direct marketing. What product they sale is really secondary as long as those product don’t kill people. It’s a social phenomenon that you can’t get rid of just like most religions. On the other hand, I think the traditional investing norm is not much unreliable than these ?alternative? kinds. It?s just a human believe backed by a bunch of dubious data, then further vilified by more people echo such ideas.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
I think I should write a post about this on my blog, but I never really thought about it until reading your post.
A long time ago when I was 19 years old, I was recruited for a company called A. L. Williams. They have since changed their name to Primerica, but their business model has not changed. I attended their meetings and listened to the cheerleading. At the time, the two ways that I could make money were to get my insurance license (which I didn’t do) or find people interested in doing loan consolidations (think homeowners). It turns out that my passion in life is not to bug all my friends and family to either use their products, or join the “club”. In the end, I got paid on two deals. One was a huge refinance for a friend of a friend. I made a $1200 commission just for introducing my upper level guy to them. Sure, I sat there at their table, but I couldn’t discuss the loan etc or discuss any financial items that related to mutual funds (that they were pushing hard) because I didn’t have my securities license. All in all, I only lasted a few months of attending meetings etc before I just quit going.
Now, all that being said, I have absolutely no regrets for having been involved with them. The reason I say that is because I learned about compound interest and how important it is to start early. It is absolutely the pivotal point in my life where I decided to learn about saving money and not spending everything I made. I am so grateful to have learned about the Rule of 72 and compound interest at age 19! Would I get involved with them again? Nope. Would I recommend them? Probably not. But I would recommend surfing personal finance blogs to get the same kind of information on investing and compound interest/time value of money etc.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:47 pm
I left Fidelity Investments and wanted to keep my security licenses current. I joined up with Primarica. They want you to prospect your family and friends for insurance, loans and mutual fund sales. Most of the people with Primerica had very low product knowledge and did this part time. If you are good at selling, you could make some money but most make very little. Products were below average. Reps from Primerica have a low standing in the investment community.
December 12th, 2006 at 12:56 pm
Southern preacher accent huh! Reminds me of Robert Duvall’s movie…The Apostle.
I guess my indian accent wont qualify then
Though there is a MLM for indians only. I hate it when they approach other indians in shopping malls or grocery stores and try that crap on you. They usually start out with ….”You look familiar….do u live at XXX”
If MLM is so good and everyone makes money, they shouldnt have a membership fee!!!
December 12th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
I had a couple of mutual funds from them. Totally worthless. When I transferred I had a $100 charge for closing the account. Oh well, I still keep the slip around just to remember my mistakes and not do that again.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
I’ve heard of this and was hounded to come to a meeting. The recruiter emailed me the directions from an unprofessional AOL email address. I’m glad you blogged about this and I’m glad I didn’t go.
December 12th, 2006 at 2:26 pm
My cousin joined. She tried to recruit me but the first step was unnegotiable – an evaluation of my finances. I told her I was quite happy with my finances and didn’t need any investments, advise or life insurance but I was willing to help others and sell to them. She told me I could do that as soon as she ran through my finances.
A few months later she called back and wanted introductions to my friends. We don’t talk about it at all anymore.
December 12th, 2006 at 11:56 pm
i haven’t heard of primerica until i read this blog but it sure sounds like a scam. as for quixtar.. my boyfriend is into it… just started.. i was not 100% convinced but i supported him anyway. i agree though, that you shouldn’t take a job where your income is dependent on recruiting other people. if it doesn’t work out in the end, at least he learned his lesson.. i’ve always been skeptical of networking businesses… aside from the fact that i would have to bug people… (which i find really embarrassing) i really believe that those who say you can make big bucks like the ones before you are lying… there is definitely a diminishing marginal returns right there… and the fact that you switch products too… i know IBO’s get discounts and point values… but if buying elsewhere leaves more money in your wallet than buying from quixtar and getting points/discounts… buying outside is still the better deal right? they also say their products are concentrated and not commercialized (say their laundry detergent vs tide).. i’m not sure about that… they also say that big companies like sony, barnes and noble and circuit city partner with them (it’s true). that’s what they say when people have doubts.. like why would big companies partner with a questionable company? i hope it works for him but if it doesn’t… i hope he doesn’t fall for another mlm… they also charge a $300 upfront fee…
December 13th, 2006 at 1:24 am
Sri,
Though there is a MLM for indians only. I hate it when they approach other indians in shopping malls or grocery stores and try that crap on you.
I totally get what you mean. I’ve been targeted by a lot of MLM scams directed toward African Americans.
We’re already the prime target for rip-off payday loans and check cashing schemes. Throw in the MLMs, deceptive annuity salesmen, and predatory credit card companies and you a nightmare so huge that I worry for my people! Yikes!
December 13th, 2006 at 2:52 am
My story reads much like Hazzard’s. Only I still have a Roth IRA that I opened with Primerica (switching to Vanguard soon). Luckily I was new to the area and did not have friends or family so they did not want me to try to bring them in(no one was licenced in my home state to sell the products). I remember once being asked what I wanted from Primerica and I replied an education about money. I think the correct answer was to build a big down line and make a lot of money helping people with their finances. I got a start on what I wanted so I don’t feel that I wasted my time with them. I’m not sure how they feel about me. In the end I would say I would never work with them again. But on the other hand if it were not for Primerica pulling me in would I still be in debt or maxing out my IRA or know more than I should about life insurance. Probably not.
December 13th, 2006 at 10:38 am
On the face of it, it does seem like they promote proper financial ideas. I’m kinda bummed nobody’s come by to defend them yet.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:06 pm
A good friend of mine joined Primerica several years ago and hasn’t been the same since. While they espouse financial freedom in theory, in practice it plays out more like a cult. My friend has spent nearly all of his savings on Primerica training materials & products. However, he hasn’t made a dime with them. Very cult like. Be very leary.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:49 pm
Jonathon,
If you read my comments, I was a little hard on them, but I did give them credit for teaching me many of the basic finance principles. They do give decent advice: “Spend less than you earn, don’t buy crazy life insurance. Term life is best, invest money automatically every month etc.
Of course they drive you toward their investments and I think that’s where it can get a little questionable. I doubt they are preaching “index, index, index” but at least they are getting some people in to the right thought process of saving versus spending.
December 14th, 2006 at 2:14 am
Hazzard – No, I think you were very fair. I just meant I’m surprised no employee of Primerica has come by and said “No, we are the largest group of financial associates in the country and sell $80 billion in stuff a year, blah blah blah”
A lot of companies use the basic philosophy of “hey, we’re better than nothing.”. That’s kind of weak, especially if you can learn most of these principles in a $10 book that could be borrowed for free from the library.
December 19th, 2006 at 5:22 pm
When I first moved to the phoenix area a few years ago I was at a job fair, andwas approached by a young man who did not have a booth but said he was sent by his boss at Citigroup. I was skeptical of the situation but gave him a resume. I was called into a mass interview/presentation in a run down building where the pyramid scheme that is Primerica slowly unfolded. Ultimately, like American Express, their goal is to gain access to your family and friends through you, and when you ultimately quit because there is no money in it they will still have their hooks in the people you care about. All you are to your boss is a way to get hot leads. Nothing more. Thank God I walked out during the presentation (what legitimate company asks you to pay for your licenses) and was hired by a financial institute that is very favorably mentioned on your blog.
December 28th, 2006 at 11:12 pm
I was also approached by someone from A.L. Williams a long time ago about being a representative. The concept was to buy term insurance, instead of whole life, and invest the difference in mutual funds. The more I went to the meetings, the more my part of my eventual comission kept getting smaller. I dropped out, but did follow the concept, but used other companies insurance and investments and it worked well for me. I had the same “awakening” as Hazzard did about finances.
Several years later my brother-in-law got involved in Primerica. He had several bbq’s trying to sell family and friends. I don’t know if he ever did sell anything to anybody else but he loaded up on the insurance himself. Good thing he passed away leaving my sister and neice with a nice cushion to start over.
So my personal experience is that they educate well, but don’t work for them.
January 7th, 2007 at 10:38 am
First off, I would like to say that I have been with PFS.for five years now. Primerica is registered and licensed as an insurance broker dealer, a mortgaga broker dealer and a securities dealer.The financial services industry as a wole is haevily regulated.
Before I go any further, I want to make a distinction. There are other types of business models that exist out side of the four walls and a time clock that most people go to everyday.Yes, Primerica has taken the ” best of” the MLM structure and incorporated into creating a duplicatiable business system. As a business system it’s self MLM is a way to let your efforts compound and duplicate as opposed to trading dollars for hours.
Unfortunitly, most people that go to a meeting judge at a first glance and don’t understand the different mind set that they are seeing.I can even tell by some of the terminology used in some of these posts like
‘employees of Primerica” or people get offended when thay walk into a group presentation that talks about concepts like financial freedom and a shot at building a business and not an interview for job.
To be honest with you I’m glad Primerica isn’t a job because then it would pay probably about $9 -14 an hour, and the shot of achieveing freedom would be a big fat zero. The fact is very few employees become wealthy because of the business vehicle they are in,very highly taxed and you are only being paid on a position not on your efforts. Primerica looks for people that want to build a business in a very legit and heavily regulated industry. I fail to see where this is a cult, it can also be argued that the millions of Americans that will retire broke or nearly broke from a job is the biggest cult there is.
Is it reasonable to think that someone who has built and runs a business may have a different out look and set of values than someone that works a job.
I realize this is not for everyone but just because PFS resides outside of the traditional coporate structure does not qualify it as a cult or a scam. As far as the $199 to join, that is refunded to you when you pass your life insurance exam and helps pay for books to study and a prep calss for the insurance and also a portion of the goes for an FBI background check.
Also what Primerica offers as far as product is taking people from whole life and cash value policies to an honest term product.
Taking people out of passive accounts earning that guarenteed 3% to mutual funds and annuities that historically out preform the traditional
low intrest rates you get from the bank.
Also ways to pay down debt faster as opposed to renting our lives to the lending industry.
Lastly a shot at building a business where you take the spot lite off your self and focus on helping others build a business.
If this is a cult I will take it over the negativity of a job and renting my life just to retire needing governmental assistance in retirement.
January 7th, 2007 at 1:31 pm
My personal opinion after hours of research and involvement with them – you can try to put on a new face or introduce a new twist to a pyramid scheme, but you are the same artists in the end. Just check who is behind it…
January 7th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
I know alot of people feel that way and I’m Ok with that. I am at peace with what I do with this company. There is a winning atmosphere here and if you want read this post and think that I am stuck in this cult, that is fine. I am pro active in my life and building my business and if everyone needs to battle this out then have at it…
January 14th, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Brian F. you explained Primerica perfectly. Primerica has an awesome concept/plan for building a business, helping yourself and other people on their way to financial success and freedom. I commend you.
January 16th, 2007 at 10:15 am
Hi,
I would just like to say that Brian explained perfectly what Primerica is all about. I think the reason why some people on here have negative stories to tell about Primerica is because they really don’t understand what it takes to become wealthy. It is years and years of programming people to become employees that have caused this, and a lack of financial literacy. They have never really been around wealthy people and had a chance to study what they do.
Wealthy people (who created their wealthy and did not inherit it) almost always created that wealth because they leveraged off of others work. Whether those people were employees (like most of the people complaining on here) or independent business owners, these wealthy people received income from the effort of others. This is called passive income. I realize this is a different concept for most people to accept.
Most people are the employees that are making wealthy people rich. They have no idea how to turn this around. So they complain about being taken advantage of and they totally miss out on an opportunity to teach them how to do this in a fair way. It’s not wrong to receive income from the work that others do (especially if you trained them to do it), but it is wrong to receive that income if you don’t provide those same people the opportunity that you have. That?s what happens in traditional business.
Employees receive a salary, which is classified as active income. Active income is income in which you must physically work for. This income is also subject to automatic withholding from the IRS. People like me who have mostly passive income have a chance to deduct business expenses from my income before paying taxes to the IRS.
Building a business is not easy, and most employees have to work on their thinking before they can become successful in business. Most businesses fail because they do not have the right mindset. I know it?s hard to look at yourself and ask the question ?Am I the reason that I failed at this?? It?s necessary to do this because if you don?t, nothing will change. People who succeed in business learn from failure, fix the mistake and try again. Failures in life complain about things not working and blame everyone but themselves. Primerica didn?t fail you. YOU failed YOU and that?s hard to accept.
So what are you going to do about it? Give up? Go back to your job that?s not paying you enough and keeping your standard of living low? It?s up to you.
January 21st, 2007 at 7:23 pm
I think there are a lot of narrow minded people giving oppinions on somthing they know very little or nothig about. Some say it didn’t work for them, or it sounds like a pyramid sceme, It’s a cult and a bunch of other non-sense. This is one of the true opportunities for ordinary people to become successful and do so while helping other people. Primerica offers products that are good for the consumer. They educate people on how the other banks are taking advantage of people every day, locking them back into long term debt on an average of every 2.5 years with things such as interest only loans, adjustable rate mortgages and many more temporary solutions. Primerica focuses on educating clients and helping them truly become debt free. Primerica representatives make less money than other mortgage brokers because they do not have a yield spread premium or tacked on points than increase commissions. It is what it is. It’s called doing the right thing 100% of the time. Im sorry this opportunity has not worked for everyone who has tried it but Im sure none of those who quit tried very hard. There are many people making a great deal of money in Primerica. The system works, the products are outstanding. If you want to be successful, find someone who is successful and do what they do. If you want to stay broke, listen to other broke people and do what they do.
January 22nd, 2007 at 4:23 pm
I just wanted to bring this to attention. Seems rip off report changed it’s tune.http://www.ripoffreport.com/re.....229393.htm
I used to not like this site because it was not really a “report” but yet another message board dedicated to bashing Primerica. They did an investigation of the company that lasted almost a year. What they found is a legitimate opportunity worth considering.
I know some people will stick with their battle cry of ,It’s a scam, a cult, as is the nature and angle of this message board. That is fine for people to feel that way but do it because you are informed and not out of judgment and a blancket mentality that Primerica is a scam because it dosn’t resemble your job.