The Essential Components of the Good Life

Here is YASAH – yet another study about happiness. Reader RJ sent this to me via this CBS Marketwatch article, but I highly recommend reading the actual study titled Meaning Really Matters: The MetLife Study on How Purpose Is Recession-Proof and Age-Proof [PDF].

Done as a follow-up to a previous similar study based on the research of Richard Leider, they expanded their targeted group to 1,675 people of ages 25-74. In it, they again found the following common components essential to living “the Good Life”:

  • Respondents define the Good Life in terms of the three Ms: Money (having enough), Meaning (time for friends and family), and Medicine (good physical and mental health).
  • Living the Good Life is highly related with having a sense of purpose and this in turn is interrelated with “vision” (having clarity about the path to the Good Life) and “focus” (knowing and concentrating on the most important things that will get you to your Good Life).
  • Meaning, closely associated with the importance of family and friends, remains the primary component of the Good Life for all age groups, despite instability in financial and other aspects of their life. People plan to spend time with family and friends above all else, regardless of age.

The problem is that there are often so many things in the present distracting and overwhelming us, it can be hard to maintain that sense of purpose.

Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Plan: Free $25 To Start

The Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Savings Plan is again offering a $25 refer-a-friend bonus if you open an account and deposit at least $25 by June 30, 2010. You can be a resident of any state, and there are no application or annual fees.

Rated a Top 529 Plan by Morningstar
In a recent article The Best and Worst 529 College-Savings Plans by Morningstar, the Ohio CollegeAdvantage plan was rated in the top 5 plans:

Features they liked included having a wide variety of investment options (including active/passive, multiple age-based options, and even ultra-safe CDs), as well as low total expenses. In-state resident can also deduct up to $2,000 of contributions per year, with excess carryover allowed.

My Personal Experience
So far, I am quite impressed with the Ohio plan. The website itself is functional and fast, there are a variety of investment choices (cash, index funds, active funds), they are upfront with the fees, and the expenses are very competitive – either the lowest or near the lowest in the nation. There are no inactivity fees, minimum balance fees, or other bogus fees.

I have gotten the $25 bonuses plus several referrals, with no complaints from the people I referred. I have also started an auto-debit from my checking account for $50 a month. Right now, half of my 529 is in the Vanguard inflation-protected bond fund. This is an investment option that is unavailable in most state plans. I did an analysis of conservative inflation-linked 529 investment options here.

I feel that since college is only at most 18 years away with a big lump-sum payment, I would prefer less volatility while marching towards that goal. This is in contrast to saving for retirement, where I currently have 35 years until I turn 65, and hopefully another 20 years after that as well.

Referral Bonus Instructions
Currently the newly referred person gets $25, and the referring person gets $50, and I’d love for you to help fund my kid’s college dreams. :D Here’s how:

  1. You can enroll online or via mail. The online process was quick and easy, and I didn’t have to mail in anything.
  2. The first step is to input your personal info and choose a login/password. Next, you’ll verify your e-mail and complete the application.
  3. After that, you’ll choose your funding amount and select an investment fund. Your initial deposit must be a least $25, and is funded using the account/routing numbers of your bank account. At the bottom, you will need to enter a referral code to get the bonus. Enter 2439350.
  4. In 1-3 days, your initial deposit will be taken from your bank account, and in 5-7 business days you will get your $25 bonus. The $25 will be deposited directly into the 529 account, and will be invested in the same thing as your initial deposit.

If a child has two parents, one parent may sign-up and then refer the 2nd parent to get another bonus, while both can list the same child as the beneficiary. If your child is not born yet or does not have a Social Security number yet, you can choose yourself or another family member as the beneficiary, and then later on fill out a Change of Beneficiary form.

Here is a screenshot of me getting my $25 bonus successfully and as promised:

Relationships and Money: Are You Communist, Socialist, or Capitalist?

I was catching up on some blog reading and caught an old post from Plonkee about the different ways that couples can manage their finances. The three different methods were categorized as communist, socialist, or capitalist. Rather controversial, eh? Don’t get too excited folks, just read on:

Communist: One Big Pot

According to Wikipedia, communism is a social structure in which classes are abolished and property is commonly controlled. Thus, no matter what each person earns, all their income is deposited into one central joint account, from which all expenses are paid from as well. All assets including property, investments, and cash are owned together.

Socialist: Earn More, Pay More

Under this structure, common shared expenses such as rent and utilities are paid via a joint account. Let’s say one person makes $75k and the other person makes $25k. Then if the monthly shared expenses are $1,000 per month, they would pay $750 and $250 respectively. The contribution is proportional to income.

Separate expenses such as entertainment, gifts, or clothing are paid for out of personal accounts. This allows each person to retain some individual control of their money.

Capitalist: You Pay Yours, and I’ll Pay Mine

Finally, we have the option where purely shared expenses are simply split straight down the middle. Differing income levels don’t change anything; If you make more then you keep more. Everything else is paid directly by each individual. Theoretically, each person is thus incentivized to keep their own expenses down, as nobody else helps to pay for it. There is “my money” and “your money”. This is often how platonic roommates manage their finances.

Just Call Me Karl
Although I usually don’t align myself as communist, I must admit that that is mostly how we manage our money as a married couple. It’s also helpful that we both work and earn comparable incomes (a least for now). We do add in a small “adult allowance” fund where we can spend money on whatever with no questions asked. Besides that, while we definitely don’t always agree on things, I think the combination of open communication and the passage of time has gotten us relatively comfortable with the “one pot” setup.

Now, I don’t think any one type is necessary better than the other, and know couples of each persuasion. I do have one question for the capitalist-types, though: What about retirement? Do you split that too? What happens if one person doesn’t invest adequately in retirement?

Happy Holidays!

Here’s to wishing you and your families a safe and happy holiday season. I also hope that we can all take some time to reflect on 2009, which was a very hectic year in our household.

Fidelity Cuts 529 Plan Fees, Changes Age-Based Asset Allocations

On December 1st, Fidelity Investments made significant reductions to the management fees on the 529 college savings plans that they manage. From this AP article:

Fees on indexed plans will be cut in half, while fees on actively managed and advisor-sold plans will be cut by a third, the firm said. Fidelity manages plans sold in Arizona, California, Delaware, Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

The changes mean a family with $50,000 in an indexed portfolio might now pay $125 a year in fees, instead of $250, assuming the amount in the plan remained unchanged. [...]

Fidelity, which is based in Boston, said total fees for its direct-sold indexed portfolios will now range from 0.25 percent to 0.35 percent of assets. Total fees for actively managed plans will now range from 0.59 percent to 1.04 percent of assets.

Here is a PDF of their current expense ratios for their active and passive investment options.

According to this WSJ article, they’ll also be changing up their age-based asset allocations a bit:

Fidelity also said it plans to increase the international equity exposure in both its direct- and advisor-sold plans’ age-based portfolios to 30% of the overall equity allocation from a current range of 0 to 20%, and plans to add an emerging-markets fund to its age-based portfolios.

Both changes will be phased in over the next 12 to 18 months.

The reason for this is hardly altruistic, as Fidelity is a privately-held for-profit company. They needed to do this in order to stay competitive. The only reason I have 529 fund at Fidelity is that I have had it connected to their 2% back credit card. I’m still happy with the change though, which follows their recent addition of index fund options back in August 2009.

Despite these improvements, I still plan on shifting everything eventually to my account at the Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Plan, which offers inflation-protected bonds (TIPS) at a very low expense which I think are a great “safe” option for saving up for college. (They also offer a variety of low-priced index options from Vanguard.) Fidelity has no such TIPS option.

Also, until December 15th (soon!), they are still running a promotion where you can get $25 for signing up, $50 for referring others, and $25 for starting up automatic deposits. (A couple could earn $150 free for their kid’s education this way.) If you need it, my CollegeAdvantage referral code is 2439350.

Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Plan: Free $25 Starter Bonus

The Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Savings Plan is again offering a $25 refer-a-friend bonus if you open an account and deposit at least $25 by December 15, 2009. You can be a resident of any state, and there are no application or annual fees.

Rated a Top 529 Plan by Morningstar
In a recent article The Best and Worst 529 College-Savings Plans by Morningstar, the Ohio CollegeAdvantage plan was rated in the top 5 plans:

Features they liked included having a wide variety of investment options (including active/passive, multiple age-based options, and even ultra-safe CDs), as well as low total expenses. In-state resident can also deduct up to $2,000 of contributions per year, with excess carryover allowed.

My Personal Experience
So far, I am quite impressed with the Ohio plan. The website itself is functional and fast, there are a variety of investment choices (cash, index funds, active funds), they are upfront with the fees, and the expenses are very competitive – either the lowest or near the lowest in the nation. There are no inactivity fees, minimum balance fees, or other bogus fees. The only bad thing I can think of is that every time I make a purchase I get a snail-mail confirmation with no paperless option, which seems wasteful.

I have gotten the $25 bonuses plus several referrals, with no complaints from the people I referred. I have also started an auto-debit from my checking account for $50 a month. Right now, half of my 529 is in the Vanguard inflation-protected bond fund. This is an investment option that is unavailable in most state plans. I feel that since college is only at most 18 years away with a big lump-sum payment, I would prefer less volatility while marching towards that goal. This is in contrast to saving for retirement, where I currently have 35 years until I turn 65, and hopefully another 20 years after that as well.

Referral Bonus Instructions
Currently the newly referred person gets $25, and the referring person gets $50, and I’d love for you to help fund my kid’s college dreams. :D Here’s how:

  1. You can enroll online or via mail. The online process was quick and easy, and I didn’t have to mail in anything.
  2. The first step is to input your personal info and choose a login/password. Next, you’ll verify your e-mail and complete the application.
  3. After that, you’ll choose your funding amount and select an investment fund. Your initial deposit must be a least $25, and is funded using the account/routing numbers of your bank account. At the bottom, you will need to enter a referral code to get the bonus. Enter *.
  4. In 1-3 days, your initial deposit will be taken from your bank account, and in 5-7 business days you will get your $25 bonus. The $25 will be deposited directly into the 529 account, and will be invested in the same thing as your initial deposit.

If a child has two parents, one parent may sign-up and then refer the 2nd parent to get another bonus, while both can list the same child as the beneficiary. If your child is not born yet or does not have a Social Security number yet, you can choose yourself or another family member as the beneficiary, and then later on fill out a Change of Beneficiary form.

Here is a screenshot of me getting my $25 bonus successfully and as promised:

* Javascript is required. If you can’t see any numbers, please use 2439350.

Ask The Readers: Parents Losing Home To Foreclosure

I just got a rather difficult question in my inbox, and thought that it would be a good idea to get some perspective and advice from my thoughtful readers to help another reader. Be gentle! I think this could happen to many of us.

Jonathan – what would you do in my shoes:

Parents are in their late 50′s, bought a house they can’t really afford (@7% interest rate) and are going to be foreclosed on within the year.

If I co-sign/add my income to theirs, together we make enough for them to qualify for a refinance @4.5% 5/1 ARM. Possibly long enough for them to sell the house in the next 5 years and recover some of their lost equity (80% of their savings were tied up in the downpayment that has almost all evaporated).

However, I obviously take a credit hit and a significant risk if one of them can no longer make even the reduced payment. I am single, without kids, and in my late 20′s, working an average job (moderate job security).

Thanks for any suggestions – your blog has spared me the same fate as my parents.. so far.

First, I’m glad to hear that you are trying to help your parents, even though they made a significant financial mistake.

Do you live in a non-recourse state, where they can’t go after other assets if you default on a mortgage loan? Have you confirmed that you can get the new loan with the current loan-to-value ratio? Your income might be enough, but they still might reject or require another downpayment. If so, how much does lowering the interest from 7% to 4.5% lower the monthly payment? Would your parents be able to afford the new payment without assistance? How stable is their income?

In the end, I would say that if this requires large cash injections from you and not just your credit score and income verification, it is risky to bet that your home value will rebound in 5 years. It might, or it might not in such a short timeframe. If they live in a non-recourse state, I would at least explore the possibility of having your parents let the house go and get by with bad credit and the rest of their savings. Can they rent a place for a lot cheaper?

However, if they can swing the new payment with your co-signature only, perhaps it is worth a try. The hardest part is probably convincing your parents to downgrade their lifestyle and housing preference to something more realistic. It’s a tough situation. What would you do, readers?

Personal Finance Education, Delayed Gratification, and Marshmallows

Many people agree that there should be more personal finance education in school. This is supposed to be one of the keys to making the average person save more money, have less credit card debt, and invest wisely. You know, teach a high schooler the wonder of compound interest and the related trap of credit card minimum payments.

But I’ve perhaps the problem is even more basic than that. I recently ran across something called the Marshmallow Experiment by Walter Mischel. Check out this video (hat tip to Rob Garcia of LendingClub):

Here’s a quick summary of the original 1960s study. A group of four-year olds were put in a room with just a chair and a table. The kids could pick either a marshmallow, a cookie, or a pretzel stick. The child was then given an option. They could either eat one marshmallow right away, or if they waited until the researcher left and came back, they could have two marshmallows. How long could they wait? The researchers continued tracking them and found that those with the ability to wait were better adjusted, had less behavioral problems, and scored an average of 210 points higher on the Scholastic Aptitude Test.

Teaching Delayed Gratification
Along the same lines, I think a core requirement of good personal finance “education” is teaching people delayed gratification. Imagine how many adults wouldn’t be able to wait a year to get $500 versus getting $250 today. If you can exercise such self-control, then you won’t buy things on credit cards because you “gotta have it now”. You’ll be able to save money towards a retirement that may be decades away. It will be easy to spend less than you earn.

How do you teach delayed gratification? Since it would require years of practice, you’d want to start early and the responsibility would fall heavily on the parents. From an interview with Mischel in a related New Yorker article:

“This is where your parents are important,” Mischel says. “Have they established rituals that force you to delay on a daily basis? Do they encourage you to wait? And do they make waiting worthwhile?” According to Mischel, even the most mundane routines of childhood—such as not snacking before dinner, or saving up your allowance, or holding out until Christmas morning—are really sly exercises in cognitive training: we’re teaching ourselves how to think so that we can outsmart our desires.

But of course, not all parents will do that. So the problem is then how do we systematically teach children this skill in school, which is what researchers are working on now. In my opinion, that would be the ultimate in personal finance education. Because if you don’t have the ability to defer gratification, then learning about index funds isn’t going to help very much.

Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Plan Referral Promotion Code: Free $25

This is a friendly reminder that you can still get a $25 head start to your child’s college fund if you open a 529 account with the Ohio CollegeAdvantage plan and fund with $25 of your own. Not only is the free money nice, but this is actually a very good plan in which I am making monthly automatic contributions.

Rated a Top 529 Plan by Morningstar
In a recent article The Best and Worst 529 College-Savings Plans by Morningstar, the Ohio CollegeAdvantage plan was rated in the top 5 plans:

Features they liked included having a wide variety of investment options (including active/passive, multiple age-based options, and even ultra-safe CDs), as well as low total expenses. In-state resident can also deduct up to $2,000 of contributions per year, with excess carryover allowed.

My Investment Choice: Inflation-Protected Bonds
529 plans aren’t perfect, and you have to be careful about what you’re invested in. This article I found on BH summarizes my concerns well:

…saving for college isn’t like saving for retirement. The run-up is much shorter, 18 years at most instead of 30 or 40, so most of the miraculous gains of compound interest are lost. Second, the payout is far more immediate and inflexible. People can choose when to retire, delay if they have to, and ride out ups and down in the market over decades. For most students, college happens three months after graduation, ready or not, and the check is due on Day 1.

I explored some conservative 529 investment options here, and based on my conclusions I am currently putting all my contributions into the Vanguard Inflation-Protected Bond option. This works especially well since TIPS are best held in tax-advantaged accounts.

Refer-A-Friend Bonus Instructions

  1. You can enroll online or via mail. The online process was quick and easy, and I didn’t have to mail in anything.
  2. The first step is to input your personal info and choose a login/password. Next, you’ll verify your e-mail and complete the application.
  3. After that, you’ll choose your funding amount and select an investment fund. Your initial deposit must be a least $25, and is funded using the account/routing numbers of your bank account. At the bottom, you will need to enter a referral code to get the bonus. Enter *.
  4. In 1-3 days, your initial deposit will be sucked out, and in 5-7 business days you will get your $25 bonus. The $25 will be deposited directly into the 529 account, and will be invested in the same thing as your initial deposit.

* Number is randomly generated. If you can’t see any numbers above, please use 2483590. With this program, both the newly referred and the referrer get $25. As promised, I have received several referrals from readers, and have thus included their referral codes to be shared here. I probably won’t have time to do it again for this promotion, but keep your eyes out for future similar offers.

Is Your State Prepaid Tuition 529 Plan Really Safe?

I have thought about signing up for a prepaid tuition plan, as I am leaning towards conservative investments for college savings. Lock-in tuition now, and don’t worry about future hikes. However, it appears that even though 18 states have pre-paid tuition plans, only seven of them actually guarantee them – Florida, Maryland, Massachusetts, Mississippi, Texas, Virginia and Washington. (The image below says six, but the article was corrected later to add Virginia.)

Currently, the plan hurting the most publicly is from Alabama, called the Prepaid Affordable College Tuition Plan (PACT). The plan’s asset value dropped from $899 million in September 2007 to $463 million at the end of January, nearly a 50% drop. Why? Because they invested over 70% of their assets in stocks, and also assumed a consistently high rate of return:

According to an actuarial report on the fund filed by the state in January 2008, the fund’s managers then as­sumed a rate of return of about 8 percent until 2013, and 8.5 percent after that. That report also found that the fund’s liabilities exceeded its assets by about $20 mil­lion.

According to fund docu­ments, 42 percent of its assets, as of March 2008, were invested in large market capi­talization domestic stocks, 9 percent in small market capi­talization domestic stocks, 21 percent in international stocks, 26 percent in domestic fixed-income securities and 2 percent in cash.

48,000 families who were invested in the plan got letters earlier this month that the plan may have trouble meeting its future obligations. To make things worse, their brochures actually once stated that it was guaranteed by the state of Alabama, until later on it was found that wasn’t possible due to state law.

I don’t know about you, but isn’t a guaranteed return the entire point of prepaid tuition plans? I commit money now in order to know that I can afford tuition for my child in the future. I give up the chance for higher returns elsewhere. Otherwise, it’s like heads they win, tails you lose. High returns, they keep the difference. Low returns, they say “oops we got no money”.

Also reported to be in trouble are the programs in Tennessee, South Carolina, West Virginia and Washington. Finally, I also found this article which stated that although guaranteed, the Texas plan had a projected shortfall of $206 million.

Conservative 529 Options: CollegeSure Tuition-Indexed CDs vs. Inflation-Protected Bonds (TIPS)

Recently, I have been exploring the “safe” options inside various 529 plans. This would be a good choice for those who want to feel like they are making continuous gradual progress and avoid the swings of the stock market, similar to what is offered in pre-paid tuition plans in certain states like Florida. The problems with those plans are that they are usually limited to residents only, and your kid often has to go to one of the in-state schools to get the guaranteed tuition benefit. One unique pre-paid type of plan is the Independent 529 plan, but it is also restricted to certain schools (mostly private liberal arts colleges).

Next, there are plans with guaranteed-return funds backed by insurance companies, or certificates of deposit from banks. However, these types of investments are still subject to inflation risk. If a period of high inflation occurs, your returns could be squashed. Even with current deflation concerns, given current government policy I think high inflation in the future is still a potential concern.

So what’s left?

CollegeSure Tuition-Indexed CDs

Offered by the College Savings Bank, these are FDIC-insured certificates of deposit which offer an interest rate linked to college tuition levels. The CollegeSure CD earns an annual percentage yield (APY) over the life of the investment that is 3.00% less than the college inflation rate. (For a while, this margin was only 1.5%.) These are only available through either the Montana or Arizona 529 plans, but you can use the proceeds towards a school in any state.

The CDs are available in maturities ranging from 1 to 22 years, so you are basically pre-paying tuition at a fixed premium. Here’s an illustration from their site:

Changes in costs are tracked by the Independent College 500 Index (IC500), which is derived from the average tuition plus housing costs of 500 private colleges. Over the last 10 years, the college inflation rate has been 5.4% annualized, Over the last 20 years, it was 5.7% annualized. Of course, this is just an average and it both excludes public universities and ignores the average aid packages given out, but it seems to be a reasonable index.

Treasury Inflation-Protected Bonds

Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities (TIPS) are bonds that promise you a total return that adjusts with the CPI index for inflation. Very generally, it works like this: if the stated real yield is 2% and inflation ends up at 4%, your return would be 6%. TIPS are issued and backed by full faith of the U.S. government. Right now, they are only available in 529 plans in the form of mutual funds like the Vanguard Inflation Indexed Bond Fund. Some plans offer them as part of their age-based investment mixes, but a few offer them as standalone investment options. The Ohio 529 plan ($25 bonus) looks to offer the cheapest option, with an annual expense ratio of 0.32%.

The actual real yield you get varies, but here is some historical market data for a maturity of 10-years, which is close to the average mutual of the Vanguard fund:

To make a rough estimate, I’d say you average about 2% real before fees. After about 0.3% in fees, you’d end up with 1.7% + inflation.

Inflation is tracked here by the CPI-U (Consumer Price Index for All Urban Consumers), a number tracking the price of a wide basket of goods and services. From January 1999 to January 2009, the annualized inflation rate was about 2.5%. Over the last 20 years, it has been about 3.0%.

It does not focus on college tuition, or even include it explicitly as far as I know. However, there should be some correlation to college tuition.

So which is better?

Would you rather have:

Overall Inflation plus 1.7% or College Inflation minus 3%

If we use the average numbers from the last 10 years, the CollegeSure CD would have earned roughly 2.4% annually and the TIPS fund would have earned roughly 4.2% annually. This would seem to tilt in favor of TIPS, but there are two problems:

  • Unlike with the CollegeSure CD, you can’t match the maturity of the TIPS fund with your goals. It’s more or less fixed at 10 years forever. For example, if you only have 2 years left until college, you might want to start moving money out because you can still lose principal in the short-term due to interest rate fluctations.
  • If the rate of college tuition rises significantly higher than overall inflation by greater than 4.7% a year, then the TIPS fund would fall short.

One could always split money between the two as well, but for not I’m just investing in the TIPS. College inflation may continue to outpace overall inflation (or it may not), but I doubt it will do so by more than 4.7% a year for an extended period. Also, I believe that investment options in 529s will only improve with time. One day, I expect to be able to buy individual TIPS to more closely match maturities with our time horizon.

This is not to say I’ll necessarily be 100% TIPS – I’ll most likely throw a bit of stocks in there – but I think it’ll be a big component of our plan.

Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Plan: Free $25 Opening Bonus

The Ohio CollegeAdvantage 529 Savings Plan is again offering a $25 refer-a-friend bonus if you open an account and deposit at least $25 by May 31, 2009. You can be a resident of any state, and there are no application or annual fees.

First Impressions
My own account with them has been open for a few months, and so far I am quite impressed with the Ohio plan. The website itself is functional and fast, there are a variety of investment choices (cash, index funds, active funds), they are upfront with the fees, and the expenses are very competitive – either the lowest or near the lowest in the nation. The only bad thing I can think of is that every time I make a purchase I get a snail-mail confirmation with no paperless option, which seems wasteful. A more detailed review is upcoming.

I have gotten the $25 bonuses plus several referrals, with no complaints from the people I referred. I have also started an auto-debit from my checking account for $50 a month. Right now, half of my 529 is in the Vanguard inflation-protected bond fund. This is an investment option that is unavailable in most state plans. I feel that since college is only at most 18 years away with a big lump-sum payment, I would prefer less volatility while marching towards that goal. This is in contrast to saving for retirement, where I currently have 35 years until I turn 65, and hopefully another 20 years after that as well.

Referral Bonus Instructions
Both the referred and referree get $25, and I’d love for you to help fund my kid’s college dreams. :D Here’s how:

  1. You can enroll online or via mail. The online process was quick and easy, and I didn’t have to mail in anything.
  2. The first step is to input your personal info and choose a login/password. Next, you’ll verify your e-mail and complete the application.
  3. After that, you’ll choose your funding amount and select an investment fund. Your initial deposit must be a least $25, and is funded using the account/routing numbers of your bank account. At the bottom, you will need to enter a referral code to get the bonus. Enter *.
  4. In 1-3 days, your initial deposit will be sucked out, and in 5-7 business days you will get your $25 bonus. The $25 will be deposited directly into the 529 account, and will be invested in the same thing as your initial deposit.

I opened the account back in November and got my $25 bonus successfully and as promised:

* Javascript is required. If you can’t see any numbers, please use 2439350.